Send an answer to a topic: Chevrolet Task Force & C/K-Series
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antp
Do not forget these few, when you've time:
While we're busy with these vehicles, the following are surprisingly alone :
http://www.imcdb.org/vehicles.php?make=Chevrolet&model=Carryall&modelMatch=1&modelInclModel=- on
+ http://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_475410-Chevrolet-Suburban-Carryall-1957.html
their siblings are probably listed in a different way
and these five without year:
http://www.imcdb.org/vehicles.php?resultsStyle=asImages&sortBy=2&make=Chevrolet&model=- Panel+
are maybe in one of the other categories
http://www.imcdb.org/vehicles.php?make=Chevrolet&model=Carryall&modelMatch=1&modelInclModel=- on
+ http://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_475410-Chevrolet-Suburban-Carryall-1957.html
their siblings are probably listed in a different way
and these five without year:
http://www.imcdb.org/vehicles.php?resultsStyle=asImages&sortBy=2&make=Chevrolet&model=- Panel+
are maybe in one of the other categories
antp
Are most of these "conventions" in the "Naming conventions" category of the forum or just as "admins uses"?
A lot of things are just "common knowledge" on imcdb, so there is unfortunately no faq/repository with all the habits of the site
It is so annoying to write documentation...
How do you prefer the identification proposals to be made? Here with a "first is..., second...", here with links for each, or in the comments of each page?
in comments, so there is a trace of why it was named that way (mostly in case someone suggests another name)
Yes of course, I meant the oldest ones
eLMeR
... About the GM generic name, it is a facility for us because GM somewhat exists as make, but note that for many other cases we do not use a generic name but we rather pick a model randomly. The most common being Dodge Diplomat and its clone.
(Off-topic: Talking about clones... http://imcdb.org/vehicle.php?id=18803#Comment1652221 )
Note that we do that even for some GM : the Chevrolet Express vs GMC Savana for example, even if not identifiable properly we do not list these as GM...
I won't say I'm keen of that kind of "identification", but as long as I know what to propose when identifying (or not, in this case ) a vehicle, I will handle it. Are most of these "conventions" in the "Naming conventions" category of the forum or just as "admins uses"?
As Chevrolet seems much more common than GMC for these older trucks, I would list these as Chevrolet unless they can be identified as GMC.
These trucks are not really common in France, and experience taught me that movies aren't reality. So I may not be the right person to give you the correct answer
My impression for Advance-Design trucks line is that most light-duty trucks were Chevrolet models. It might be the same (or half-and-half?) for medium-duty (called "heavy-duty" by Chevrolet) 1½-ton an 2-ton models. For models above, only GMC trucks existed until 1955.
But I don't know for later trucks lines.
While we're busy with these vehicles, the following are surprisingly alone :
...
and these five without year:
...
...
and these five without year:
...
How do you prefer the identification proposals to be made? Here with a "first is..., second...", here with links for each, or in the comments of each page?
(I've listed all the pre-54 models as just "Panel")
You mean pre-1947, as I saw 1947-55 an Advance-Design Panels category?
Doesn't it mean that all are 1948 model? (cf the '64½ Mustang)
1948 seems often given as lower bound of the date range of these
1948 seems often given as lower bound of the date range of these
For what it is worth, the 1947 MY has its own "data sheets", and:
- All (credible) sources I know say there are 1947 models:
http://1954advance-design.com/A-D_LCVA/LCVA-1-47.html
http://www.classicparts.com/frame-truck-years.html
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/1947-1955-chevrolet-trucks.htm
etc.
- Even "enthusiasts-based" websites use this MY:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Advance_Design
http://classicchevytrucks.org/advanced-design-1947-55/ (a lot of enthusiasts sites say "Advanced" )
and so on.
- The IMCDb crew too already use it for 3100 to 6400 models, pickups, Suburbans, etc.
I think we should generalize this 1947 MY start.
antp
By the way, all 22 IMCDb 1948 Panels models should be given a 1947 model year: the Advance-Design trucks line was unveiled in June 1947 as a "mid-1947" MY. And no exterior changes were made to the trucks until early 1949 (the gas tank change).
Doesn't it mean that all are 1948 model? (cf the '64½ Mustang)
1948 seems often given as lower bound of the date range of these
antp
While we're busy with these vehicles, the following are surprisingly alone :
http://www.imcdb.org/vehicles.php?make=Chevrolet&model=Carryall&modelMatch=1&modelInclModel=- on
+ http://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_475410-Chevrolet-Suburban-Carryall-1957.html
their siblings are probably listed in a different way
and these five without year:
http://www.imcdb.org/vehicles.php?resultsStyle=asImages&sortBy=2&make=Chevrolet&model=- Panel+
are maybe in one of the other categories
(I've listed all the pre-54 models as just "Panel")
http://www.imcdb.org/vehicles.php?make=Chevrolet&model=Carryall&modelMatch=1&modelInclModel=- on
+ http://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_475410-Chevrolet-Suburban-Carryall-1957.html
their siblings are probably listed in a different way
and these five without year:
http://www.imcdb.org/vehicles.php?resultsStyle=asImages&sortBy=2&make=Chevrolet&model=- Panel+
are maybe in one of the other categories
(I've listed all the pre-54 models as just "Panel")
antp
a lot of info here
I'll check all that.
About the GM generic name, it is a facility for us because GM somewhat exists as make, but note that for many other cases we do not use a generic name but we rather pick a model randomly. The most common being Dodge Diplomat and its clone.
Note that we do that even for some GM : the Chevrolet Express vs GMC Savana for example, even if not identifiable properly we do not list these as GM.
We did that only when we had a common name (C/K-Series, Suburban).
As Chevrolet seems much more common than GMC for these older trucks, I would list these as Chevrolet unless they can be identified as GMC.
I'll check all that.
About the GM generic name, it is a facility for us because GM somewhat exists as make, but note that for many other cases we do not use a generic name but we rather pick a model randomly. The most common being Dodge Diplomat and its clone.
Note that we do that even for some GM : the Chevrolet Express vs GMC Savana for example, even if not identifiable properly we do not list these as GM.
We did that only when we had a common name (C/K-Series, Suburban).
As Chevrolet seems much more common than GMC for these older trucks, I would list these as Chevrolet unless they can be identified as GMC.
eLMeR
(The author disclaims any liability for yawns, lethargy or sleeping that may occur while reading this "slightly" long post )
Then
• these panels (deliveries / trucks / vans) are Chevrolet C/K-Series Apache Panel
(except:
∗ http://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_65180-Chevrolet-Panel-Truck-1960.html
∗ http://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_251778-Chevrolet-Panel-Truck-1960.html
∗ http://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_414545-Chevrolet-Panel-Truck-1960.html
∗ http://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_187429-Chevrolet-Panel-Truck-C-Series-1960.html
∗ http://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_552736-Chevrolet-Panel-Truck-C-Series-1961.html
that can't be clearly identified as Chevrolet. See the "Non-identifiable trucks part" below)
• these ones are Chevrolet C/K-Series Panel.
(except 10 or more that can't be more identified than GM Panels. I'll note it in comments)
• Task-Force:
For the name, 1956 brochure cover says "Panel trucks", but the inner pictures have only "Panel model 3105 / 3805" captions. 1958 and 1959 brochures use "Panels" only.
→ 4 1958-59 Chevrolet Task-Force Apache Panels (2 wrong MY amongst them, one already noted in comments, the other soon to be);
→ 17 1955-57 Chevrolet Task-Force Panels.
/!\ This one is a 1955 Advance-Design Panel, it's what is called a "1955 1st Series" ("2nd Series" being the 1955 Task-Force trucks), as said by 56chevy in the comments.
• Advance-Design:
For the name, the word "Panel" is alone in the table of contents of the 1948 brocure and in the pages dedicated to the 3105 and 3805 models. Same thing for the 1951 brochure and the 1954 one (except there is no T.O.C. for this one).
→ 43 1947-54 Chevrolet Advance-Design Panels (plus the sole "1955 1st Series" model that was mentioned in the Task-Force part)
- plus these 4 models without MY (1947 by default - date proposal in comments for all, in fact, but "lost" since April ):
∗ http://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_499943-Chevrolet-Panel-Truck.html
∗ http://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_260427-Chevrolet-Panel-Truck-3105.html
∗ http://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_289883-Chevrolet-Panel-Truck-3800.html
∗ http://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_290087-Chevrolet-Panel-Truck-3800.html
By the way, all 22 IMCDb 1948 Panels models should be given a 1947 model year: the Advance-Design trucks line was unveiled in June 1947 as a "mid-1947" MY. And no exterior changes were made to the trucks until early 1949 (the gas tank change).
It's a real mess, for the names. I fear to start digging in these trucks pages
This concerns 17 trucks. Maybe only 16, as one is said to be a Delivery Sedan. I haven't yet make any real researches about the pre-1947 trucks lines, so I have no idea on how they can be called. Maybe we should just standardize the model names (Panel truck?), so that it will be easier to find them later if anyone has a good solution?
------------------------------------------------------
Non-identifiable trucks part
------------------------------------------------------
Similar question about "GM only" trucks led to a reminder given by t0nkatracker about an already existing use in IMCDb: the "GM only solution". Shouldn't it be done the same way here to preserve the consistency of the naming?
• For the "Panel only" name:
For Chevrolet literature, cf. above and the 1970 brochure (it was the last year of production for the panels). 1954, 1964 and 1967 GMC brochures show that these trucks were also called "panels" only, without any "trucks" or anything else more.
Can we assume it was the same for both makes for the whole 1947-70 interval?
• About the trucks line names:
- 1955-59 trucks: GMC name for these trucks line was "Blue Chip" (without hyphen). So "GM Task-Force" would be a kind of misnomer... GM Task-Chip? GM Blue-Force?
More serious, GM Blue Chip/Task-Force Panel? Not an easy name, but that way an advanced research with just the "Blue Chip" (or "Task-Force") name will give both GM and GMC (or GM and Chevrolet) trucks...
- 1947-55 trucks: GMC trucks seemed to be called "New Design" models. But I haven't find (for now) any contemporary document with that name. Lot of enthusiasts just call these models GMC Advance-Design trucks, but enthusiasts without sources are not my favorite leads... GM Advance-Design/New Design Panel? Same idea as above for the advanced research.
2 panels of this era are already identified as GM "Panel vans". The 2 others should be categorized into the GM C/K-Series Panel pages.
- C/K were... C/K for both Chevy and GMC, so no problem for a GM C/K-Series Panel. For the record, GM C/K-Series already exists in the IMCDb.
To me it seems cleaner the first solution, as suggested previously.
Even if the panel versions aren't linked together (which does not have so much interest) they are more close to the original names.
Even if the panel versions aren't linked together (which does not have so much interest) they are more close to the original names.
Then
• these panels (deliveries / trucks / vans) are Chevrolet C/K-Series Apache Panel
(except:
∗ http://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_65180-Chevrolet-Panel-Truck-1960.html
∗ http://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_251778-Chevrolet-Panel-Truck-1960.html
∗ http://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_414545-Chevrolet-Panel-Truck-1960.html
∗ http://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_187429-Chevrolet-Panel-Truck-C-Series-1960.html
∗ http://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_552736-Chevrolet-Panel-Truck-C-Series-1961.html
that can't be clearly identified as Chevrolet. See the "Non-identifiable trucks part" below)
• these ones are Chevrolet C/K-Series Panel.
(except 10 or more that can't be more identified than GM Panels. I'll note it in comments)
For the Advance Design, same as Task Force, I suppose.
• Task-Force:
For the name, 1956 brochure cover says "Panel trucks", but the inner pictures have only "Panel model 3105 / 3805" captions. 1958 and 1959 brochures use "Panels" only.
→ 4 1958-59 Chevrolet Task-Force Apache Panels (2 wrong MY amongst them, one already noted in comments, the other soon to be);
→ 17 1955-57 Chevrolet Task-Force Panels.
/!\ This one is a 1955 Advance-Design Panel, it's what is called a "1955 1st Series" ("2nd Series" being the 1955 Task-Force trucks), as said by 56chevy in the comments.
• Advance-Design:
For the name, the word "Panel" is alone in the table of contents of the 1948 brocure and in the pages dedicated to the 3105 and 3805 models. Same thing for the 1951 brochure and the 1954 one (except there is no T.O.C. for this one).
→ 43 1947-54 Chevrolet Advance-Design Panels (plus the sole "1955 1st Series" model that was mentioned in the Task-Force part)
- plus these 4 models without MY (1947 by default - date proposal in comments for all, in fact, but "lost" since April ):
∗ http://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_499943-Chevrolet-Panel-Truck.html
∗ http://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_260427-Chevrolet-Panel-Truck-3105.html
∗ http://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_289883-Chevrolet-Panel-Truck-3800.html
∗ http://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_290087-Chevrolet-Panel-Truck-3800.html
By the way, all 22 IMCDb 1948 Panels models should be given a 1947 model year: the Advance-Design trucks line was unveiled in June 1947 as a "mid-1947" MY. And no exterior changes were made to the trucks until early 1949 (the gas tank change).
For older ones, we could either list them as Panel model, or without model, just Panel in extra info, not sure what would be the best.
It's a real mess, for the names. I fear to start digging in these trucks pages
This concerns 17 trucks. Maybe only 16, as one is said to be a Delivery Sedan. I haven't yet make any real researches about the pre-1947 trucks lines, so I have no idea on how they can be called. Maybe we should just standardize the model names (Panel truck?), so that it will be easier to find them later if anyone has a good solution?
------------------------------------------------------
Non-identifiable trucks part
------------------------------------------------------
Similar question about "GM only" trucks led to a reminder given by t0nkatracker about an already existing use in IMCDb: the "GM only solution". Shouldn't it be done the same way here to preserve the consistency of the naming?
About the GM ones, how are the equivalent GMC named?
We could default to Chevrolet rather than use the generic GM, if more common and if that helps listing them.
We could default to Chevrolet rather than use the generic GM, if more common and if that helps listing them.
• For the "Panel only" name:
For Chevrolet literature, cf. above and the 1970 brochure (it was the last year of production for the panels). 1954, 1964 and 1967 GMC brochures show that these trucks were also called "panels" only, without any "trucks" or anything else more.
Can we assume it was the same for both makes for the whole 1947-70 interval?
• About the trucks line names:
- 1955-59 trucks: GMC name for these trucks line was "Blue Chip" (without hyphen). So "GM Task-Force" would be a kind of misnomer... GM Task-Chip? GM Blue-Force?
More serious, GM Blue Chip/Task-Force Panel? Not an easy name, but that way an advanced research with just the "Blue Chip" (or "Task-Force") name will give both GM and GMC (or GM and Chevrolet) trucks...
- 1947-55 trucks: GMC trucks seemed to be called "New Design" models. But I haven't find (for now) any contemporary document with that name. Lot of enthusiasts just call these models GMC Advance-Design trucks, but enthusiasts without sources are not my favorite leads... GM Advance-Design/New Design Panel? Same idea as above for the advanced research.
2 panels of this era are already identified as GM "Panel vans". The 2 others should be categorized into the GM C/K-Series Panel pages.
- C/K were... C/K for both Chevy and GMC, so no problem for a GM C/K-Series Panel. For the record, GM C/K-Series already exists in the IMCDb.
antp
To me it seems cleaner the first solution, as suggested previously.
Even if the panel versions aren't linked together (which does not have so much interest) they are more close to the original names.
For the Advance Design, same as Task Force, I suppose.
For older ones, we could either list them as Panel model, or without model, just Panel in extra info, not sure what would be the best.
About the GM ones, how are the equivalent GMC named?
We could default to Chevrolet rather than use the generic GM, if more common and if that helps listing them.
Even if the panel versions aren't linked together (which does not have so much interest) they are more close to the original names.
For the Advance Design, same as Task Force, I suppose.
For older ones, we could either list them as Panel model, or without model, just Panel in extra info, not sure what would be the best.
About the GM ones, how are the equivalent GMC named?
We could default to Chevrolet rather than use the generic GM, if more common and if that helps listing them.
eLMeR
Could have been in its own thread, with a title like:
Chevrolet Panel Truck [C-Series] or Chevrolet C/K-Series Panel?
As a reminder, GMC and Chevrolet called these vehicles "panels" only, without any "trucks" or anything else more.
It would indeed make sense to call these trucks C-Series Panels, as they were utility trucks made on the C/K-Series basis (chassis, almost all the cab, engines, power train, etc.) and where named C-Something Panels or K-Something Panels (with the Chevrolet chassis code) in the brochures. If I were asked to choose a name, well, my choice is already made: C/K-Series (or C-10 / K-10 / C-30) Panel, plus the chassis code if a C/K-10 or C-30 model can be identified
But if I'm not mistaken, with this Chevrolet C/K-Series Panel name, these panel trucks will be only related to the C/K-Series (or to C/K-10 / C-30 trucks if the model is identified), not to the Chevrolet panels of other generations. With the current Chevrolet Panel Truck [C-Series] identification, one can compare it directly to 1940 to 1969 Chevrolet Panel trucks, and a click on [C-Series] gives all the trucks of this category.
But there is currently no possibility to give the extra chassis code (C/K1405 // C3605) to an identified truck, as it is already "occupied", and the 1960-61 "Apache" models have no place to show it either, except in complement.
But I also know it's a problem only with this version of the IMCDb, and the "next gen." should unblock the situation. So, what "sounds" better, and what will help more, now and later ?
- proposed Chevrolet C/K-Series Panel and derivatives:
• Chevrolet K-10 Panel [K1405]
• Chevrolet C/K-Series Apache Panel
• Chevrolet C-30 Apache Panel [C3605]
• and so on.
- or current Chevrolet Panel Truck [C-Series] and derivatives:
• Chevrolet Panel Truck C1405 [C-10] // Chevrolet Panel Truck C-10 [C1405]?
• Chevrolet Panel Truck [K-Series]
• Chevrolet Panel Truck Apache [C/K-Series] ?
• etc.
For the previous generations of panels (1940 trucks, 1941-47 Art Deco, 1947-55 Advance-Design and 1955-59 Task-Force ones) the current identification seems to always be:
19xx Chevrolet Panel Truck (if model unknown)
19xx Chevrolet Panel Truck [3105] (if ½-ton model is identified. So it can be a [3805] for a 1-ton model)
It would be frank to add that changing the C/K-Series panels implies changing more or less quickly the Task-Force ones to be logical, and shortly after the Advance-Design ones too. And maybe the 1967-72 "Action Line" C/K panels, as it seems to exist panels from that generation... Which will (temporarily?) break the above-mentioned link between all these panels.
(I'm aware that I don't work for my proposal, with that argument )
___________
Panels-related subsidiary question: shouldn't we "start" a GM Panel page, as there are several GM panels (from all generations) for which the make can't be identified?
Chevrolet Panel Truck [C-Series] or Chevrolet C/K-Series Panel?
As a reminder, GMC and Chevrolet called these vehicles "panels" only, without any "trucks" or anything else more.
It would indeed make sense to call these trucks C-Series Panels, as they were utility trucks made on the C/K-Series basis (chassis, almost all the cab, engines, power train, etc.) and where named C-Something Panels or K-Something Panels (with the Chevrolet chassis code) in the brochures. If I were asked to choose a name, well, my choice is already made: C/K-Series (or C-10 / K-10 / C-30) Panel, plus the chassis code if a C/K-10 or C-30 model can be identified
But if I'm not mistaken, with this Chevrolet C/K-Series Panel name, these panel trucks will be only related to the C/K-Series (or to C/K-10 / C-30 trucks if the model is identified), not to the Chevrolet panels of other generations. With the current Chevrolet Panel Truck [C-Series] identification, one can compare it directly to 1940 to 1969 Chevrolet Panel trucks, and a click on [C-Series] gives all the trucks of this category.
But there is currently no possibility to give the extra chassis code (C/K1405 // C3605) to an identified truck, as it is already "occupied", and the 1960-61 "Apache" models have no place to show it either, except in complement.
But I also know it's a problem only with this version of the IMCDb, and the "next gen." should unblock the situation. So, what "sounds" better, and what will help more, now and later ?
- proposed Chevrolet C/K-Series Panel and derivatives:
• Chevrolet K-10 Panel [K1405]
• Chevrolet C/K-Series Apache Panel
• Chevrolet C-30 Apache Panel [C3605]
• and so on.
- or current Chevrolet Panel Truck [C-Series] and derivatives:
• Chevrolet Panel Truck C1405 [C-10] // Chevrolet Panel Truck C-10 [C1405]?
• Chevrolet Panel Truck [K-Series]
• Chevrolet Panel Truck Apache [C/K-Series] ?
• etc.
For the previous generations of panels (1940 trucks, 1941-47 Art Deco, 1947-55 Advance-Design and 1955-59 Task-Force ones) the current identification seems to always be:
19xx Chevrolet Panel Truck (if model unknown)
19xx Chevrolet Panel Truck [3105] (if ½-ton model is identified. So it can be a [3805] for a 1-ton model)
It would be frank to add that changing the C/K-Series panels implies changing more or less quickly the Task-Force ones to be logical, and shortly after the Advance-Design ones too. And maybe the 1967-72 "Action Line" C/K panels, as it seems to exist panels from that generation... Which will (temporarily?) break the above-mentioned link between all these panels.
(I'm aware that I don't work for my proposal, with that argument )
___________
Panels-related subsidiary question: shouldn't we "start" a GM Panel page, as there are several GM panels (from all generations) for which the make can't be identified?
antp
Indeed these should be regrouped
edit: done
For the numbers code, why not, if there are none yet for some models and if they are official ones, we can use them
edit: done
For the numbers code, why not, if there are none yet for some models and if they are official ones, we can use them