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Explain this one ....
Published 16/07/2020 @ 02:41:58, By dsl
Proposition: if you're a European car maker, your ability to make a successful model within different categories is determined by the alcoholic drinking habits of your native country.

So if you are based in a country which makes more wine than beer - stick to small cars - your attempts at big cars (whether saloons, SUVs, MPVs etc) will fail, so France, Italy, Spain etc are doomed, although your small cars will be successful.

However if your country prefers beer, you can build successful big cars alongside small ones - think UK, Germany, Sweden, Czech.

Does this work outside Europe??
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Published 16/07/2020 @ 04:18:09, By Baube
don't know... but it's an interesting theory... :lol:
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Published 16/07/2020 @ 07:19:18, By night cub
Let's look at some numbers:

Top 25 selling cars in all of Europe in 2019

1. VW Golf - 458,595
2. VW Polo - 330,922
3. Renault Clio - 302,994
4. VW Tiguan - 297,224
5. Skoda Octavia - 268,954
6. Nissan Qashqai - 260,428
7. Ford Focus - 243,825
8. Dacia Sandero - 233,460
9. Ford Fiesta - 233,019
10. Dacia Duster - 231,906
11. Citroen C3 - 230,907
12. Peugeot 208 - 230,843
13. Opel Corsa - 227,390
14. Renault Captur - 223,367
15. Toyota Yaris - 213,420
16. Peugeot 3008 - 210,066
17. VW T-Roc - 200,583
18. Mercedes A-Class - 197,599
19. Fiat Panda - 186,763
20. Ford Kuga - 178,226
21. Hyundai Tucson - 172,703
22. Skoda Fabia - 166,831
23. Mercedes C-Class - 166,017
24. Peugeot 2008 - 165.604
25. Fiat 500 - 160,699
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Published 16/07/2020 @ 07:19:41, By night cub
Here are the stats for some of the largest European countries in 2019

Germany (1):
1. VW GOLF - 204,550
2. VW TIGUAN - 87,771
3. MERCEDES C-CLASS - 64,403
4. VW POLO - 61,286
5. VW PASSAT - 59,322
6. VW T-ROC - 58,898
7. FORD FOCUS - 58,261
8. SKODA OCTAVIA - 55,210
9. OPEL CORSA - 51,708
10. AUDI A4/S4/RS4 - 50,740

UK (2):
1. Ford Fiesta - 77,833
2. VW Golf - 58,994
3. Ford Focus - 56,619
4. Vauxhall Corsa - 54,239
5. Mercedes-Benz A-Class - 53,724
6. Nissan Qashqai - 52,532
7. Ford Kuga - 41,671
8. MINI Hatch - 41,188
9. Volkswagen Polo - 37,453
10. Kia Sportage - 34,502

France (3):
1. PEUGEOT 208 - 87 285
2. CITROEN C3 III - 80 757
3. RENAULT CLIO IV - 80 079
4. PEUGEOT 3008 II - 72 940
5. DACIA SANDERO - 69 343
6. RENAULT CAPTUR - 64 050
7. PEUGEOT 2008 - 59 218
8. PEUGEOT 308 II - 56 435
9. RENAULT CLIO V - 51 428
10. RENAULT TWINGO III - 50 724

Italy (4):
1. Fiat Panda - 138,132
2. Lancia Ypislon - 58,759
3. Dacia Duster - 43,701
4. Fiat 500X - 42,554
5. Renault Clio - 41,792
6. Jeep Renegade - 41,683
7. Citroen C3 - 41,646
8. VW T-Roc - 39,600
9. Toyota Yaris - 36,805
10. Jeep Compass - 35,568

Spain (5):
1. SEAT Leon - 35,849
2. Dacia Sandero - 33,882
3. Nissan Qashqai - 30,163
4. Renault Megane - 25,555
5. Renault Clio - 25,555
6. SEAT Ibiza - 25,134
7. SEAT Arona - 25,131
8. VW Golf - 24,355
9. Peugeot 3008 - 23,311
10. Opel Corsa - 22,352

Latest Edition: 16/07/2020 @ 07:21:50
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Published 16/07/2020 @ 07:22:16, By night cub
Poland (6):
1. Skoda Octavia - 20,375
2. Toyota Corolla - 19,699
3. Skoda Fabia - 17,096
4. Dacia Duster - 15,342
5. Toyota Yaris - 14,069
6. Opel Astra - 13,813
7. VW Golf - 12,808
8. Fiat Tipo - 9,384
9. Renault Clio - 8,675
10. VW Tiguan - 8,395

Belgium (7):
1. VW Golf
2. Renault Clio
3. Hyundai Tucson
4. Mercedes A-Class
5. Renault Captur
9. Mercedes C-Class
Top 10. Renault Scenic
Top 10. Skoda Octavia
Top 10. Dacia Sandero

Netherlands (8):
1. Tesla Model 3
2. VW Polo
3. Ford Focus
4. VW Golf
5. Kia Niro
Top 10. Toyota Aygo
Top 10. Kia Picanto
Top 10. Renault Clio
Top 10. Ford Fiesta

Sweden (9):
1. Volvo S/V60 - 23,179
2. Volvo S/V90 - 14,715
3. VW Golf - 14,223
4. Volvo XC60 - 13,091
5. VW Tiguan - 11,666
6. VW Passat - 8,908
7. Kia Niro - 7,887
8. Volvo XC40 - 7,600
9. Nissan Qashqai - 6,394
10. Kia Ceed - 6,242

Austia (10):
1. Skoda Octavia
2. VW Golf
3. VW Polo
4. VW T-Roc
5. Skoda Fabia
6. VW Tiguan
7. Seat Ibiza
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Published 16/07/2020 @ 07:23:11, By night cub
Switzerland (11):
1. Skoda Octavia
2. VW Tiguan
3. VW Golf
4. Tesla Model 3
5. Mercedes GLC
Top 10. Skoda Kodiaq
Top 10. Skoda Karoq
Top 10. Mercedes A-Class

Czech Republic (12):
1. Skoda Octavia
2. Skoda Fabia
3. Skoda Karoq
4. Skoda Rapid
5. Hyundai i30
6. Skoda Kodiaq
7. Skoda Scala
8. Skoda Superb
9. Dacia Duster
10. Kia C'eed

Hungary (16):
1. Suzuki Vitara
2. Suzuki SX4 S-Cross
3. Skoda Octavia
4. Dacia Duster
5. Ford Kuga
Top 10. Toyota Corolla
Top 10. Kia C'eed
Top 10. Fiat 500

Greece (20):
1. Toyota Yaris
2. Opel Corsa
3. VW Polo
4. Fiat Panda
5. Citroen C3
6. Peugeot 208
7. Nissan Qashqai
8. Renault Clio
9. Hyundai i20
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Published 17/07/2020 @ 02:41:52, By dsl
Not worth pushing this one too far, but it's less about sales figures in individual countries, more about which categories different countries can design/sell successfully across markets.

So wine-drinking countries fail to do successful big cars in last decade - Renault, Citroen, Peugeot, Fiat, Lancia for instance have tried but given up, leaving Alfa as the last representative, but it's basically on life support as a brand.

Successful European big things - Merc, BMW, Audi, VW, Volvo, Jag, Land/Range Rover, Skoda, maybe to some extent Ford, Vauxhall/Opel - all come from beery countries. These firms may also be good at small cars alongside their big ones, so the national drink is not a factor for tiddlers.
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Published 17/07/2020 @ 19:27:25, By chicomarx
Merc & BMW et al. have the global presence and reputation to make luxury cars because of a tradition of skilled work that was born in the medieval guilds and apprenticeship systems. That's a culture of centuries. I think the beer drinking is somewhat unrelated. The weather in northern Europe just doesn’t allow for grapes.
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Published 17/07/2020 @ 21:10:15, By Sandie
So wine-drinking countries fail to do successful big cars in last decade - Renault, Citroen, Peugeot, Fiat, Lancia for instance have tried but given up, leaving Alfa as the last representative, but it's basically on life support as a brand.


The French haven't given up, bless them. Peugeot still does the 508 and they have the DS9 and a new large Citroen in the pipeline (mostly for China, but they will be sold in Europe) which will be introduced in the next year or two. Renault still do some larger cars in mainland Europe too. To be fair, the French did have a credible history in large cars the 405, 406, 505, CX etc weren't exactly flops. Lancia haven't just given up on large cars, they've pretty much given up full stop... They sell one car in one country, but hilariously manage to sell quite a lot of them there (see night cub's figures, the Ypsillon outsells whole marques that sell ranges of cars in more than one state)

I think it's like Chico says, it's as much to do with brand image. Plenty of beer is swilled in Rüsselsheim but who exactly buys Insignias any more?
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