Send an answer to a topic: Mass change model info thread
antp
There are two as 1936, are these correct? (one was set by Lateef, who usually knows his stuff :D)
Harold B
I assume then that the changes other than those you quoted are OK to apply then?
I don't see anything else wrong, but I don't know the years by heart.
antp
I assume then that the changes other than those you quoted are OK to apply then?
Harold B
I was a little lost between all there references
I renamed the vehicles to add the S, and added the old make to the list of automatic fixes so in case the name without S is searched on entered, it is automatically updated.
I renamed the vehicles to add the S, and added the old make to the list of automatic fixes so in case the name without S is searched on entered, it is automatically updated.
Sorry about that. I'm used to people being stubborn and having to provide a whole bunch of evidence to convince them.
For all "Renault FT", model is "FT17" and year is "1917+".
https://www.imcdb.org/vehicles_make-Renault_model-FT.html
https://www.imcdb.org/vehicles_make-Renault_model-FT.html
No it isn't. I just asked him to change this on the previous page of this thread. The proper name is Renault FT. Renault didn't use numbers in their model designations (except for two specific exceptions which I mentioned).
For all "Panhard 178", model is "AMD 178".
https://www.imcdb.org/vehicles_make-Panhard_model-178.html
For these, model is "AMD 178 B" and year is "1945+".
https://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_82248-Panhard-178-K63-1935.html
https://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_134057-Panhard-178-1940.html
https://www.imcdb.org/vehicles_make-Panhard_model-178.html
For these, model is "AMD 178 B" and year is "1945+".
https://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_82248-Panhard-178-K63-1935.html
https://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_134057-Panhard-178-1940.html
This is also wrong. You're confusing the manufacturer's name, Panhard 178, with the French army's name, AMD 35. In the case of the "AMD 178B" specifically you're probably taking it from the "world of tanks" game? I'm guessing, because that's the first google result for that phrase. Don't ever do that. All of the "history" from that game is BS.
The vehicle in those last two images isn't even an AMD 35 B, it's a one-off prototype that didn't receive a name. https://tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2-france-panhard-178-renault-47mm-gun-turret/ "Panhard 178 47mm" is the best description since you have to call it something.
JB007
For all "Renault FT", model is "FT17" and year is "1917+".
https://www.imcdb.org/vehicles_make-Renault_model-FT.html
Year is "1920" for this:
https://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_355717-Renault-FT-1920.html
Model is "FT17 Replica" for this:
https://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_475174-Renault-FT-Replica.html
For all "Renault UE", year is "1932+".
https://www.imcdb.org/vehicles_make-Renault_model-UE.html
For this is 1937.
https://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_1253880-Renault-UE-1937.html
For all "Renault R35", year is "1935+".
https://www.imcdb.org/vehicles_make-Renault_model-R35.html
For all "Panhard 178", model is "AMD 178".
https://www.imcdb.org/vehicles_make-Panhard_model-178.html
For 2 "Renault D2", year is "1936+".
https://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_1039353-Renault-D2-1931.html
https://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_1046516-Renault-D2-1931.html
For these, model is "AMD 178 B" and year is "1945+".
https://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_82248-Panhard-178-K63-1935.html
https://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_134057-Panhard-178-1940.html
For all "Berliet CBA", year is "1915+".
https://www.imcdb.org/vehicles_make-Berliet_model-CBA.html
For all "Renault TRM 10000", year is "1988+".
https://www.imcdb.org/vehicles_make-Renault_model-TRM+10000.html
For all "Renault GBC 180", year is "1998+".
https://www.imcdb.org/vehicles_make-Renault_model-GBC+180.html
For informations:
https://www.autotitre.com/forum/Vehicules-speciaux/Photo-de-vehicule-Militaire-52937p87.htm#r39
https://www.imcdb.org/vehicles_make-Renault_model-FT.html
Year is "1920" for this:
https://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_355717-Renault-FT-1920.html
Model is "FT17 Replica" for this:
https://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_475174-Renault-FT-Replica.html
For all "Renault UE", year is "1932+".
https://www.imcdb.org/vehicles_make-Renault_model-UE.html
For this is 1937.
https://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_1253880-Renault-UE-1937.html
For all "Renault R35", year is "1935+".
https://www.imcdb.org/vehicles_make-Renault_model-R35.html
For all "Panhard 178", model is "AMD 178".
https://www.imcdb.org/vehicles_make-Panhard_model-178.html
For 2 "Renault D2", year is "1936+".
https://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_1039353-Renault-D2-1931.html
https://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_1046516-Renault-D2-1931.html
For these, model is "AMD 178 B" and year is "1945+".
https://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_82248-Panhard-178-K63-1935.html
https://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_134057-Panhard-178-1940.html
For all "Berliet CBA", year is "1915+".
https://www.imcdb.org/vehicles_make-Berliet_model-CBA.html
For all "Renault TRM 10000", year is "1988+".
https://www.imcdb.org/vehicles_make-Renault_model-TRM+10000.html
For all "Renault GBC 180", year is "1998+".
https://www.imcdb.org/vehicles_make-Renault_model-GBC+180.html
For informations:
https://www.autotitre.com/forum/Vehicules-speciaux/Photo-de-vehicule-Militaire-52937p87.htm#r39
antp
I was a little lost between all there references
I renamed the vehicles to add the S, and added the old make to the list of automatic fixes so in case the name without S is searched on entered, it is automatically updated.
I renamed the vehicles to add the S, and added the old make to the list of automatic fixes so in case the name without S is searched on entered, it is automatically updated.
Harold B
The only argument for no S on the link you posted I see is someone from 2007 quoting "encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com", which was a copy of the old wikipedia page and has since been deleted and changed to Vickers-Armstrongs with S. The other person quoted various documents which show it is Vickers-Armstrongs, as do all of the original equipment data plates.
https://i.etsystatic.com/13649851/r/il/ff2e94/2134003525/il_fullxfull.2134003525- _3anb.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GENikTGWUAANqS6?format=jpg&name=large
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/CQYAAOSwnipWbitA/s-l1600.jpg
https://shop.unigreenscheme.co.uk/files/ITEM-37040-013.jpg?v=RIvbUlJBWt
A British historian I know, Craig Moore, as said in the past that the company merger documents in the Kew archive say Vickers-Armstrongs. He's hard to get ahold of though so I don't know if I can get a copy of that to prove it.
These two manuals are from 1936 and 1933 respectively
https://i.imgur.com/j0wx7VQ.jpeg
https://i.imgur.com/edUXCiv.jpeg
https://i.etsystatic.com/13649851/r/il/ff2e94/2134003525/il_fullxfull.2134003525- _3anb.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GENikTGWUAANqS6?format=jpg&name=large
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/CQYAAOSwnipWbitA/s-l1600.jpg
https://shop.unigreenscheme.co.uk/files/ITEM-37040-013.jpg?v=RIvbUlJBWt
A British historian I know, Craig Moore, as said in the past that the company merger documents in the Kew archive say Vickers-Armstrongs. He's hard to get ahold of though so I don't know if I can get a copy of that to prove it.
These two manuals are from 1936 and 1933 respectively
https://i.imgur.com/j0wx7VQ.jpeg
https://i.imgur.com/edUXCiv.jpeg
antp
It does not seem so simple, seeing the discussion on the Wikipedia page:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Vickers-Armstrongs
At some point the company name changed then, it seems, originally it has no final S then?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Vickers-Armstrongs
At some point the company name changed then, it seems, originally it has no final S then?
Harold B
The manufacturer Vickers-Armstrongs https://www.imcdb.org/vehicles_make-Vickers-Armstrong.html is spelled incorrectly as "Vickers-Armstrong" without the S on the end. That is a common mistake, but "Armstrongs" is the correct spelling.
dsl
Ooops this might get messier than anticipated. Full list of XJS codes (deep breath ...) from ARonline is:
XJ27 XJ-S Coupe
XJ28 XJ-S Convertible
XJ41 F-type Coupe
XJ42 F-type Cabriolet
XJ57 XJ-S six-cylinder Coupe
XJ58 XJ-S six-cylinder Cabriolet
XJ63 XJ57 with projected Getrag manual gearbox
XJ71 XJ-S mules for XJ41 development programme
XJ77 XJ-S V12 Convertible
XJ78 XJ-S AJ6 Convertible
XJ79 4WD XJ-S
XJ87 facelift V12 XJS Coupe
XJ88 facelift AJ6 XJS Coupe
XJ89 facelift XJS Cabriolet
XJ97 facelift V12 XJS Convertible
XJ98 facelift V12 AJ6 Coupe
.. which has several dead-ends, non-production experiments, and too many things which are visually indistinguishable, so it's unusable for our needs.
XJ77 was the 1988+ V12 full convertible, which we've stretched by usage to include the subsequent AJ6 4.0 version launched with the 91+ facelift - fair enough, it gives us an identifiable collection for non-coupes. Splitting off the 4.0 wouldn't work in practice - the only clue is the bigger bonnet hump for the smaller engine, but Jag started putting the bigger hump on the V12s as part of the 91+ facelift, which means it becomes a dating attribute across all convertibles, not an engine marker. So all full factory convertibles being XJ77 is all we can do. And its mirror for same reasons of all coupes being XJ27 is similarly practical. The American Hess & Eisenhardt convertible conversions of XJ27 coupes predate factory XJ77, so XJ27 works fine for these without change.
XJ28 convertible in the above list was pre-prodction 1970s code for abandoned experimental/prototype only, but may have been revived for 1985+ V12 SC targa (see below).
XJ57/58. These are the two 3.6 six cylinder twins launched Aug 83, but not the 4.0 AJ6 sequels. Hopeless task to try to incorporate XJ57 for the coupe, as the humped bonnet is the only visual clue and it's difficult to use in practice when visible - I've tried, with some results but not enough to fully trust. And then all versions get it .. XJ58 was only used on the 3.6 SC targa convertibles (there were no 4.0 SC/targas), but digging deeper I discovered there were V12 SCs as well (July 85+) so although SCs are distinctly identifiable they're difficult to split (only that bonnet again), and there's no distinct code in that list which securely says V12 SC (unless it was revived for the V12 SC which is unproven and nobody ever uses it).
Summary - stick to what we've got, and abandon XJ58 idea - it's not reliable enough.
On the bright side, we (fingers crossed) seem to have successfully incorporated the stupidly trivial 1991 name change from XJ-S to XJS across everything.
XJ27 XJ-S Coupe
XJ28 XJ-S Convertible
XJ41 F-type Coupe
XJ42 F-type Cabriolet
XJ57 XJ-S six-cylinder Coupe
XJ58 XJ-S six-cylinder Cabriolet
XJ63 XJ57 with projected Getrag manual gearbox
XJ71 XJ-S mules for XJ41 development programme
XJ77 XJ-S V12 Convertible
XJ78 XJ-S AJ6 Convertible
XJ79 4WD XJ-S
XJ87 facelift V12 XJS Coupe
XJ88 facelift AJ6 XJS Coupe
XJ89 facelift XJS Cabriolet
XJ97 facelift V12 XJS Convertible
XJ98 facelift V12 AJ6 Coupe
.. which has several dead-ends, non-production experiments, and too many things which are visually indistinguishable, so it's unusable for our needs.
XJ77 was the 1988+ V12 full convertible, which we've stretched by usage to include the subsequent AJ6 4.0 version launched with the 91+ facelift - fair enough, it gives us an identifiable collection for non-coupes. Splitting off the 4.0 wouldn't work in practice - the only clue is the bigger bonnet hump for the smaller engine, but Jag started putting the bigger hump on the V12s as part of the 91+ facelift, which means it becomes a dating attribute across all convertibles, not an engine marker. So all full factory convertibles being XJ77 is all we can do. And its mirror for same reasons of all coupes being XJ27 is similarly practical. The American Hess & Eisenhardt convertible conversions of XJ27 coupes predate factory XJ77, so XJ27 works fine for these without change.
XJ28 convertible in the above list was pre-prodction 1970s code for abandoned experimental/prototype only, but may have been revived for 1985+ V12 SC targa (see below).
XJ57/58. These are the two 3.6 six cylinder twins launched Aug 83, but not the 4.0 AJ6 sequels. Hopeless task to try to incorporate XJ57 for the coupe, as the humped bonnet is the only visual clue and it's difficult to use in practice when visible - I've tried, with some results but not enough to fully trust. And then all versions get it .. XJ58 was only used on the 3.6 SC targa convertibles (there were no 4.0 SC/targas), but digging deeper I discovered there were V12 SCs as well (July 85+) so although SCs are distinctly identifiable they're difficult to split (only that bonnet again), and there's no distinct code in that list which securely says V12 SC (unless it was revived for the V12 SC which is unproven and nobody ever uses it).
Summary - stick to what we've got, and abandon XJ58 idea - it's not reliable enough.
On the bright side, we (fingers crossed) seem to have successfully incorporated the stupidly trivial 1991 name change from XJ-S to XJS across everything.