Okay so for the past year or so I have been studying Jeeps (both with reference books and original ads and brochures) and I decided to take on the task of cleaning up our Jeep listings on the site, which are quite honestly a mess. Of course with a company like Jeep who has been around since the 40's and has had 8 different parent companies, how is anyone supposed to keep it all straight?

I counted 7 different makes that we had US (not counting IKA, VAM etc) model Jeeps listed under (Jeep, Willis, Willys, Willys-Overland, Kaiser, Kaiser-Jeep, AMC) Some correctly and A LOT incorrectly based on the year (For Instance Jeep CJ2A's listed under 3 different makes) Some of these were simply spelling errors and I fixed them already (e.g. Willis) I really want to get the jeeps straightened out (over the last few days I fixed 6 or 7 pages of Cherokees without years ) But what I need help on is opinions as to how we want it done, I am all for having the info correct to a "T" but this will separate some of the models that are now together, So it may make the site not as user friendly. Below are some examples of what I am talking about.

1941-1953 models were sold as:
Make: Willys-Overland Model: 'Jeep' Universal [CJ-2A]

1954-1963 models were sold as:
Make: Willys Model: 'Jeep' Universal [CJ-5]

1964-1969 models were sold as:
Make: Kaiser-Jeep Model: Universal [CJ-5]

1970+ models were/are sold as:
Make: Jeep Model: CJ-5

of course I just used the CJ-2A and CJ-5 as examples but you get the idea, until AMC bought Jeep in 1970 and renamed it the Jeep Corporation, these were the makes that Jeep was sold under and even the word Jeep while in the model field was officially 'Jeep' until 1964.

Also notice the model names, originally all Jeep models had proper names the CJ-Series' proper model name (according to factory paperwork, advertisements, brochures etc.) was Universal and the CJ-X was just a Chassis code. The same thing with The DJ-Series of which the model name is Dispatcher and the chassis code was DJ-X. This all changed in 1970when AMC bought Jeep and dropped the name Universal and made CJ-5, CJ-6 and CJ-7 the propper model names.

Now if it were me I would like to list these things 100% accurately (must be my O.C.D. ) but is it worth it to list these vehicles like this and if it isn't worth it what should we do?

I agree that we should list these properly; if we have the info to do it right, why not do it?
Currently Willys-Overland is used only for Brazilian models. With that change both US and Brazilian models would be mixed, but that's maybe normal if the two companies were the same at that time...
I'll contact 4x4peru so he can comment here, as he identifies a lot of these Jeeps.

I don't have as much info on the overseas Jeeps as I do the US ones but this is what I gather from what I do have:

As for the Brazilian models. I suggest listing them Willys-Overland Brazil (or WOB as the make is actually Willys-Overland do Brazil) WOB was only around from 1954 until it was sold to Ford in 1967. (after that Jeeps produced there were sold as Ford Jeeps)

and while I am at it IKA was sold as IKA (make) from 1955 until it was sold to Renault in 1967 changing it to IKA-Renault (make)

Well the make was only Willys Overland, the "do Brazil" is in the company name, like for VW, Simca and a few others, not in the car designation/name.

I guess that is true and really there is no need to separate them as only US models will be Willys-Overland before 1954 and only Brazil models will be Willys-Overland from 1954 on and in actuality they are the same company. we just have to pay attention to the "built in" tag, etc

antp,Thank you for asking my opinion. As Tonkatracker states "JEEP" is a difficult brand to label correctly largely due to the number of ownership changes, countries in which it was built, and similar models with different names and different models with similar names! If Tonkatracker wants to take on the project I see no reason to discourage him. His information is extremely accurate and informative. The result of a passion pursued! My interest in Jeeps has always been the fun factor. Beginning with surplus WWII "jeeps" and later "Jeeps" especially the open top Universal models. I was young and the idea of no top did not bother me! At age 50 (me not the Jeep) my M38A1 still has no top, but is no longer a daily driver.
First I would look at the "Mission" of the IMCDb and decide the best course for listing the vehicles. To the casual enthusiasts any open top 4x4 is a Jeep. ICMDb subscribers are not the casual enthusiast. Listing in groups such as Willys "CJ-2A" or "CJ-5" with a model year range ('46-'49), ('55-'65, 66-71) etc would be painting with a broad brush and generally correct. Often details are present that allow the year model to be narrowed significantly as in the near 30 year run of CJ-5s! Other times there is little evidence to narrow the year to a specific period. This is just for US built vehicles. It gets much more complicated when adding essentially the same vehicle when built IKA, Brazil, Mexico etc...
The broad brush approach is easy to follow for most subscribers but OCD enthusiasts will go nuts over the lack of detailed information. Personally ICMDb is very enjoyable and my OCD energy goes into other things. There is no wrong decision here. If someone has the time, energy, dedication for further study let's not stand in their way. Thanks again for asking my input.
Jim

Thanks

So shall I start on this undertaking? Most will have to be done one at a time, but I will enjoy the work, and as I am currently on medical leave from work it will give me something constructive to do.

if you have time, yes, you can start that. You could wait for other comments, but as nobody made comment, there was never a big debate about naming the Jeeps, and that 4x4peru agreed, I think you have a go
If there are large ranges that I can rename directly on the server do not hesitate to ask.

It´s indeed complicated to get these right, the parent company has changed name several times as you point out and in sales material the copywriters also change order in which the name comes. So it´s a bit confusing.

I havn´t looked into this much earlier, but as brand name the Willys-Overland Motor Company used only Willys both on their cars and the Jeeps. This didn´t change, as far as I can see, when Kaiser bought the company in 1953. The company became Willys Motor Company instead and was again renamed 10 years later to Kaiser Jeep Corporation.

In advertising it seems to be a change in brandname already in 1955, from Willys to Jeep. When the CJ-5 was introduced it had only the name Jeep on the body, and later models introduced like the Forward Control Truck [FC-150] and [FC-170] and the Wagoneers carry only the Jeep nameplate and are named nothing else in advertising.
The only exception I have found after 1954 is the CJ-3B, it still wears the Willys name stamped on the hood. I would guess that it was considered too expensive to retool for this old model.

I´m sure this can be debated since the parent companys name almost always appear in the ads, but comparing to the car side of the company you can also see that the Overland part is never used on a vehicle after the mid twenties, with a brief exception in 1939 as a modelname. And when car production ends in 1955 it seems that they drop the Willys name even on the Jeeps.

Some samples:

1945:
http://www.oldcaradvertising.com/Jeep%201944-53%20Ads/1945/194520Ad-02.html
http://www.oldcaradvertising.com/Jeep%201944-53%20Ads/1945/194520Ad-06.html


1953:
http://www.oldcaradvertising.com/Jeep%201944-53%20Ads/1953/195320Ad-02.html

1954:
http://www.oldcaradvertising.com/Jeep%201954-69%20Ads/1954/195420Ad-01.html
http://www.oldcaradvertising.com/Jeep%201954-69%20Ads/1954/195420Ad-03.html
Willys Station Wagon
http://www.oldcaradvertising.com/Jeep 1954-69 Ads/1954/1954 Jeep Ad-03.html

1955:
http://www.oldcaradvertising.com/Jeep%201954-69%20Ads/1955/195520Ad-02.html
http://www.oldcaradvertising.com/Jeep%201954-69%20Ads/1955/195520Ad-05.html
The Willys Station Wagon became the Jeep Station Wagon
http://www.oldcaradvertising.com/Jeep%201954-69%20Ads/1955/195520Ad-04.html

1957:
http://www.oldcaradvertising.com/Jeep%201954-69%20Ads/1957/195720Ad-05.html

1959:
http://www.oldcaradvertising.com/Jeep%201954-69%20Ads/1959/195920Ad-01.html
http://www.oldcaradvertising.com/Jeep%201954-69%20Ads/1959/195920Ad-04.html

1962:
http://www.oldcarbrochures.com/static/NA/Jeep/1962_Jeep/1962_Jeep_Full_Line_Broc- hure/dirindex.html

1965:
http://www.oldcaradvertising.com/Jeep%201954-69%20Ads/1965/196520Ad-03.html
http://www.oldcaradvertising.com/Jeep%201954-69%20Ads/1965/196520Ad-08.html

1969:
http://www.oldcaradvertising.com/Jeep%201954-69%20Ads/1969/196920Ad-01.html

1971-72:
http://www.oldcaradvertising.com/Jeep%201970-87%20Ads/1971/197120Ad.html
http://www.oldcaradvertising.com/Jeep%201970-87%20Ads/1972/197220Ad-0b.html

All links died when I made an edit, so I reposted the whole message instead, one link is still dead so it comes here:
http://www.oldcaradvertising.com/Jeep%201954-69%20Ads/1954/195420Ad-03.html

I went back and forth with the Willys, versus Willys-Overland debate but what decided it for me was the fact that in my local Jeep club, there is a 1951 CJ-2A and a 1951 Pickup and both of them have Willys Overland listed on the title as the make.


Once the name was changed to Kaiser Jeep, the Jeep Emblems were changed to Kaiser-Jeep on the actual vehicles.

I am still doing more research before I start on this.

It´s a mighty job to do

Titles might have been altered over the years, several Continental Marks had Continental when new, but later issued titles read Lincoln. So one can´t be sure from that info either
On the VIN-plate it reads Willys-Overland and that might have been entered as make instead.

I´ve tried to find pictures of emblems on Jeeps, it´s almost always only the name Jeep pressed in the steel. Sometimes a small V6 badge, or on later cars AMC emblems.
Where should this Kaiser-Jeep emblem be, and how does it look?

This emblem, is used from at least 1962: http://www.oldcarbrochures.com/static/NA/Jeep/1966_Jeep/1966_Jeep_Wagoneer_Broch- ure/196620Wagoneer-12.html

On the back of this 1966 bruchure it´s still used and it says that Jeep is the trademark of the Kaiser Jeep Corporation. That doesn´t of course automatically mean that it´s the make of the cars, but in most printed material I´ve seen so far it´s treated like that.

DAF555, all reference material that I have states in 1965:
"The Kaiser Jeep name was added to the hood sides or fenders of all models this year"

"Kaiser_Jeep nameplates replaced the Jeep name on the front fenders of Wagoneers and Gladiators."

"The Utility-type Jeep stations wagons, panels and pickups carried Kaiser Jeep badges this season (1965)"

"There was little changed this year (1965) with the Forward Controls except for the addition or Kaiser_Jeep nameplates."

but I can't find a single picture anywhere of a Kaiser-Jeep Emblem

That´s indeed strange. I´ve searched for badges of all sorts and so far I havn´t been succesful either. But from what I can find they have at least redesigned the badges for 1965, even if they still read just Jeep. The round red and yellow emblem is still intact though.

after doing some more research I have to agree with DAF555 now, the make is always simply Jeep or 'Jeep' kaiser was always listed separately as the manufacturer but never as the make...


http://l.yimg.com/g/images/spaceout.gif

And what with Jeep DJ-5 Dispatcher and AM General DJ-5 Dispatcher? They are the same, right?