IMCDb Forum
Naming conventions » Lada vs. VAZ Lada
Category:  
« Previous topic
Direct link to this message Edit  Quote  Add this message as quote for multiple quotes  Delete  Top  Bottom
Lada vs. VAZ Lada
Published 27/05/2006 @ 19:40:40, By wickey
same models are listed under different marks.. I know, that on different markets, they were marked differed, but it is still the same company and production - maybe we could join them together?
Direct link to this message Edit  Quote  Add this message as quote for multiple quotes  Delete  Top  Bottom
Lada vs. VAZ Lada
Published 27/05/2006 @ 20:35:14, By antp
And what about Toyota, Toyopet and Lexus? And Datsun, Nissan and Infiniti? There are models that are identical but have different make depending on the country.
The current "VAZ Lada" make is probably not very correct, I guess that it was either VAZ, Lada, or something else. But we would have to find somebody that have some knowledge about Ladas in Russia for relisting then with corrent name.

Latest Edition: 27/05/2006 @ 20:36:04
Direct link to this message Edit  Quote  Add this message as quote for multiple quotes  Delete  Top  Bottom
Lada vs. VAZ Lada
Published 14/06/2006 @ 12:36:52, By liftarn
Russian makes are tricky. VAZ (or AutoVAZ nowdays) is the name of the factory. Lada is the brand name and for instance Lada 2101 is brand name and model number. VAZ also made Niva, Oka and Samara under their own brand names.
Direct link to this message Edit  Quote  Add this message as quote for multiple quotes  Delete  Top  Bottom
Lada vs. VAZ Lada
Published 14/06/2006 @ 14:44:16, By antp
So for both russia and europe we would have to call them "Lada"?
Direct link to this message Edit  Quote  Add this message as quote for multiple quotes  Delete  Top  Bottom
Lada vs. VAZ Lada
Published 06/12/2006 @ 22:43:38, By weasel1984
Well for me "VAZ Lada" as make doesn't exist, VAZ/AvtoVAZ are the names of factory, but cars are (and were) sold as Zhiguli or Lada. Similar situation like with the plants FSO and FSM - the make for most of cars was "Polski Fiat" only.
Direct link to this message Edit  Quote  Add this message as quote for multiple quotes  Delete  Top  Bottom
Lada vs. VAZ Lada
Published 29/10/2008 @ 14:38:44, By weasel1984
Ok after nearly two years it is time to refresh this topic.
There is always a problem with the old "Ladas" on the site, same model can be listed under 3 or more makes. Finally I've found a proper articles from the 1970's which should help to clear this up.
So...
1. If we have for example a 2101 in movie from the former Eastern Block and nothing says that it was made after the mid-70's, the car should be listed this way:
make: VAZ
model: 2101 Zhiguli
= VAZ 2101 Zhiguli (same like GAZ 24 Volga)
A demo version (of the 2102 wagon):
http://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_78881-VAZ-2102-Zhiguli-Universal-1974.html

2. If we have a 2101 in movie from the west Europe:
make: Lada (only, without "VAZ")
model: 1200 (or other name - depends on country)
chassis: 2101
= Lada 1200 [2101]

Sometimes we can meet them named as "VAZ 2101 Lada", but hard to find where they were really called this way (later in Soviet Union perhaps), as if there is the word "Lada" it is usually used as make on export markets, so I propose to forget about it as it complicate the situation a lot in case of the later cars as Samara. If you remember one of the Jeremy Clarkson's shows, where he destroyed a Lada Riva, you maybe also remember that he gave there a couple quotations from the British handbook - which on the cover had big lettering "VAZ", but it wasn't used as make in the UK - VAZ was simply a name of the plant/producer in this case.

Somewhere in the mid 1970's the name Zhiguli generally dissapeard from the all export markets.
So if badges are not visible we can list all 1974+ 21011 as Lada 1300 [21011] (not important was it filmed on the east or west).
At the beginning of 1973 the production of 2103 started. Here I would leave it to choose in case of the movies from the Eastern block (except USSR*) - or VAZ 2103 Zhiguli or Lada 1500 [2103], depends on years. If movie is, for example from 1977 and nothing says that the car is brand new, I would name it VAZ. Later in the 1980's the new 2103 became less common (in many countries nearly completely replaced by the Lada 1600 [2106]), so we won't have any big problem with this.
2106 was introduced in 1976, so it was known as Lada 1600 [2106] or Lada 2106.

* According to catalogue "Samochody Świata" from the late 1990's in USSR they still used the name Zhiguli, at least for some time. So even after the mid 70's cars from the Soviet film should be listed, as (for example) "VAZ 2106 Zhiguli".

I can make these changes if they will be accepted. Or maybe there are some other proposals?

Here are links to the mentioned at the beginning articles of "Młody Technik", on which I've based.
They are in Polish :tongue: , but I am adding them from an information POV.
http://ikm.wz.cz/index.php?action=show_article&id=0000000135
http://ikm.wz.cz/index.php?action=show_article&id=0000000136
http://ikm.wz.cz/index.php?action=show_article&id=0000000134
And curiosity, here we have a Polish test of the "VAZ 2105 Zhiguli" from the 1983:
http://ikm.wz.cz/index.php?action=show_article&id=0000000153
This is I think an exception, simply it is one of the first cars of this type imported here, to describe it author also used the name "Lada 1300".

Latest Edition: 29/10/2008 @ 15:10:43
Direct link to this message Edit  Quote  Add this message as quote for multiple quotes  Delete  Top  Bottom
Lada vs. VAZ Lada
Published 29/10/2008 @ 16:24:32, By antp
for the "VAZ 2101 Zhiguli", cannot we list them as "VAZ Zhiguli [2101]" (what we currently do for some) to always keep the model number in chassis code, no matter which actual make/model is used?
OK it is not exactly how the model was called, but we already do that for other cars, like Australian ones where we put the 2-letter code at the end (as chassis code) instead of putting it between make and model like what is usually done.

Latest Edition: 29/10/2008 @ 16:26:05
Direct link to this message Edit  Quote  Add this message as quote for multiple quotes  Delete  Top  Bottom
Lada vs. VAZ Lada
Published 29/10/2008 @ 18:07:06, By weasel1984
I see, but in such order: "make, number, name" it is the most correct.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I think that in case of the Australian cars these letters describe the generation (so similar like with the VW's), the VAZ's numbers describe the trim level, body shape and engine size, so it is something a bit different. Same way we could list all Volgas just, as "GAZ Volga [number]".
There won't be any problem with sorting cars of the same type, but marketed under two different makes together. If we type on the "search page", for example "2103" in the model field, we will still have all Ladas 1500 [2103] and VAZ's 2103 in one place.

Latest Edition: 29/10/2008 @ 18:08:12
Direct link to this message Edit  Quote  Add this message as quote for multiple quotes  Delete  Top  Bottom
Lada vs. VAZ Lada
Published 29/10/2008 @ 23:38:47, By antp
indeed...
Other solution would be to show chassis before model for Holden and VAZ, but anyway there is no reason to absolutely want the model in chassis for VAZ, so we could do as you suggested.
Any comment from other admin before we start doing changes?
Direct link to this message Edit  Quote  Add this message as quote for multiple quotes  Delete  Top  Bottom
Lada vs. VAZ Lada
Published 30/10/2008 @ 21:56:21, By weasel1984
Seems no - so nobody is against. I will start with this tomorrow.
The "other solution" is as I believe not easy to do from the technical point of view, but in case of WAZ's it is not necessary, and in case of the Holdens our Australian members rather have nothing to the way in which these cars are named today.
Direct link to this message Edit  Quote  Add this message as quote for multiple quotes  Delete  Top  Bottom
Lada vs. VAZ Lada
Published 31/10/2008 @ 17:08:43, By weasel1984
Done!
VAZ: http://www.imcdb.org/vehicles.php?make=vaz&model=
Lada: http://www.imcdb.org/vehicles.php?make=lada&model=

According to Wikipedia, name Lada was also known as brand in Soviet Union, as many cars originally make for export to other COMECON countries (where were later known as Lada) has been sold on the domestic market. The 1990's are the times when they officially started to use name Lada (as make) in Russia (for example the new VAZ 2110 = Lada 110). So if it was possible to see the badge I named some older cars as Lada even if movie was filmed in Russia. Same with Eastern Block countries and model 2101 - if Lada badge is visible = Lada if not = VAZ Zhiguli (the oldest possible name).

During renaming I've found an interesting comment of DAF555, he says that names in sort of 21011 never appeared on the badge - only 2101 and engine size, he might be right, but hard to say how it really is - Russians call them this way: http://www.autowp.ru/vaz/2101/.
Anyway it won't be a big problem to change this in the future and move 21011 to chassis field.

The Samaras were known in SU and Russia as Samara. I think we can trust to this Russian site (no info about the "Sputnik"): http://www.autowp.ru/vaz/2108/ *

110 was originally introduced as VAZ 2110, but seems soon has been renamed to Lada 110, so all of them are listed as Lada 110 [2110] - like it was originally on the site.

And for the end - the 2107 was the car known in the homeland as "VAZ 2107 Lada" and abroad as "Lada xxxx" [2107] :grin: http://www.autowp.ru/vaz/2107/ (same was with some versions of the 2105).

*Edit 2009 - important!
The site http://www.autowp.ru/vaz/2108/ has been updated and some their informations has been corrected. In fact 2108 and 2109 were indeed at the very beginning known in USSR under the name "Sputnik". So 2108/2109 with old grill of this type should be listed as "VAZ 210x Sputnik" if is visible in Soviet or later Russian film.
Cars with such grill (intro. in the late 1991) were already known as "Samaras" everywhere.
Sedans 21099 were known as Samara in home and as Forma abroad.

Latest Edition: 11/11/2009 @ 17:01:23
Direct link to this message Edit  Quote  Add this message as quote for multiple quotes  Delete  Top  Bottom
Lada vs. VAZ Lada
Published 31/10/2008 @ 20:14:35, By antp
Good work :wink:
Direct link to this message Edit  Quote  Add this message as quote for multiple quotes  Delete  Top  Bottom
Lada vs. VAZ Lada
Published 02/11/2008 @ 21:42:40, By weasel1984
No problem, though... in the nearest future, probably I won't be able to look at any VAZ/Lada http://maxfsl.perso.cegetel.net/gerbos3.gif
:wink:
Direct link to this message Edit  Quote  Add this message as quote for multiple quotes  Delete  Top  Bottom
Lada vs. VAZ Lada
Published 18/05/2011 @ 16:06:57, By Femicide
Hi friends. I didn't found this topic at actual time and created the new one similar. May be it's good idea to combine them? Or just insert my post here from there:
http://forum.imcdb.org/forum_topic-5263-34140-RussianSoviet_auto_brands_systematization.html#p34140

Or if can help to id, i'll be glad.
Add Reply - Category:  
Sign In :: Sign Up :: Lost your login or your password?
KelCommunity.be :: © 2004-2024 Akretio SPRL :: Powered by Kelare